Indian Council of World Affairs

Subodh Chandra Bharti:  Good morning esteemed Excellencies, ladies and gentlemen. It is my pleasure to extend a warm welcome to you all at the Indian Council of World Affairs. For today's program we are honored to host Ambassador Dr Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal, President of the International Relations and Global Diplomacy Dialogue (IRGDD), CDA Surendra Thapa ji, and guests from Nepal. Today Ambassador Dhakal is going to deliver a talk on “Modern Realities, Historic Friendship: Crafting Nepal-India Relations for a New Era”. May I request you to kindly keep your phones on silent mode. Thank you. Today's program will start with Ms Nutan Kapoor Mahawar, Acting Director General, ICWA delivering her welcome remarks. Following her address, Ambassador Dr Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal will deliver her talk after which we will engage in an interaction session. The program will be concluded with the signing of a memorandum of understanding between the Indian Council of World Affairs and International Relations and Global Diplomacy Dialogue, IRGDD. May I request Ms Nutan Kapoor Mahawar, Acting Director General, ICWA, to kindly give her welcome remarks and conduct the proceedings.

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar: Thank you Subodh. We have with us Ambassador Dr Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal, President IRGDD today. Dr Dhakal is a former Ambassador of Nepal to Oman and Spain and she is not only a diplomat, she is also an accomplished scholar, a writer and a business leader and one of the interesting things that I noted in her bio-profile was that she has done a doctorate in the comparative study -- from the Nepalese Sanskrit University? Yeah, in the comparative study of representation of women in the Vedas and Bible. And maybe one day we will call you to talk on that. But for now, she will speak on India-Nepal relations in her capacity as IRGDD President. IRGDD is International Relations and Global Diplomacy Dialogue. It's a new think tank which she has established in Kathmandu and with which we will be concluding an MOU today. A very warm welcome also to Dr Surendra Thapa, CDA, Nepal.

It needs no reiteration that India-Nepal relations are civilizational. They predate modern nation states. We both revere the Sanatan parampara and Gautam Buddha. There is a vibrant exchange of views, of traditions, of ideas, and also of values between our two peoples. Our relationship, therefore, transcends conventional diplomacy. And this very fact makes the ties endure political fluctuations on either side.

The vibrant people-to-people ties are evident in a number of things, like cross-border marriages, shared festivals, shared gods, pilgrimage routes, the sacred geography of the subcontinent, the soft borders which form a sense of familiarity that tends to transcend foreignness.

Under Prime Minister Modi's Neighborhood First policy, you are all aware that Nepal has been an extremely important partner. Connectivity and development partnership have emerged, or actually have become, as cornerstones of these ties. Closer and integrated transportation networks, including roads, railways, gas pipelines, and electricity transmission lines, as well as enhanced grid connectivity, are transforming the relationship and moving it to a greater interdependence. I would like to cite some examples here. On railways, the Jaynagar-Kurtha and the Raxaul-Birgunj freight rail services highlight strong infrastructure commitments, alongside a completed DPR for the Raxaul-Kathmandu railway. In energy cooperation, the Motihari-Amlekhgunj petroleum pipeline is expanding to Jhapa and Chitwan.

As Cd’A also knows, a tripartite agreement between India, Nepal, and Bangladesh is facilitating Nepal's electricity export to Bangladesh from June this year. On digital connectivity, QR payments in Nepal are operational, and plans for Nepali citizens to use QR codes for payments in India are underway. And then we have what we call the high-impact community development projects. Around 500 of these have been successfully completed by India so far since they were launched, if I recall correctly, in the 2000s as SDPs, the small development projects. And these are in the field of education, health, agriculture, and cultural preservation. All these initiatives, connectivity and development partnership, are positively contributing to an improved imagery of the relationship among our peoples.

As scholars of IR, you are aware that India has been striving to be the first responder, especially in its neighborhood, in times of natural crisis and in times of natural calamities and other crises. India has assisted Nepal in earthquakes and landslides, in floods, and in the COVID pandemic. And more recently, we have brought back Nepalese citizens from conflict areas, along with our citizens from Israel and from Ukraine.

Our annual budgetary allocations underscore our commitment to support Nepal's growth. Additionally, you are all aware that India is Nepal's largest investor, and we account for about 30% of their total investments. And in tourism, too, India accounts for about 30% of the total footfalls of tourists in Nepal. Our tourism linkages are very important to build people-to-people ties.

Now, these are the positives of our relationship. What are the shared challenges? And some of these warrant urgent attention. And I hope the new think tank will be able to look at these issues in a positive and in a collaborative manner. Prime among these are the significant human security concerns. Networks of women and child trafficking, border infiltration, and presence of third-country nationals in border areas need to be dealt with cooperatively. Other criminal activity, such as illegal travel, fake currency originating from Pakistan and Bangladesh, potential for terrorist activities in border areas, they call for coordinated mechanisms to combat and monitor them.

The second challenge is the need for focus on the shared geographical features like rivers, mountains and forests, which give rise to critical questions concerning water security, environmental sustainability and wildlife conservation. And global warming trends and unpredictable weather patterns increase the importance of these issues. Here I would like to cite the example of the recent severe water crisis that residents along the borders of Bihar and Madhesh Pradesh have been experiencing due to inadequate rainfall and the degradation of groundwater resources. This has resulted in drinking water shortages and delayed paddy plantation. On both sides of the border, the authorities have had to arrange for water tankers to supply areas that have never previously encountered such shortages. These escalating concerns necessitate enhanced cross-border cooperation at local level on water management and on groundwater recharge.

Third, we have to look at bilateral trade. We see emerging issues with rules of origin and the dumping of especially fast-moving consumer goods, what are called the perishables, the FMCG, into the Indian market. Also for instance, there has been a significant rise in oil exports from Nepal to India, primarily due to the importation of oil from third countries into Nepal, followed by their re-exportation to Indian markets with little value addition in Nepal, which is also to the detriment of the Nepalese industry and economy. The concerns that I have just highlighted related to human security, crime, shared geographical features and trade are shared concerns, concerns which both India and Nepal have.

As regards India's concerns, I would like to cite the occasional anti-India sentiment that we observe especially during periods of domestic political upheaval in Nepal, which may involve the covert influence of third countries. Both India and Nepal have to work together to fight the forces which seek to cause a rift in our ties.

A word about the geopolitics of South Asia and the world today and what we are witnessing today. What we are witnessing are notable shifts in South Asia, characterized by changes in governance, political dynamics, and economic challenges. We are witnessing an aggressive China's overtures in our region, and the deepening of the China-Pakistan nexus that is inimical to India and its interests. It is our expectation that Nepal will keep in mind India's security concerns, as this may further affect regional stability. As we move forward in building our relationship, both India and Nepal have to be cognizant of not only the changes that are taking place in the region, but also geopolitical changes that are taking place on a global scale, which I'm sure the new think tank will be studying and monitoring and looking into for all their implications. And as the title of today's talk says, which Ambassador Sarmila has chosen, going forward, we have to craft a relationship for a new era. Yes, a new era.

Recently after a six-year hiatus, India and Nepal resumed boundary discussions, and this augurs well for our ties. These talks addressed long-standing issues, including the potential signing of an Extradition Treaty and a Mutual Legal Assistance Agreement.

You all know that Nepal is also graduating from the LDC category next year, and we have been studying and writing about the implications for Nepal and for its neighborhood and its trading partners of that. We are ready to look at ways of cooperation to make this transition easy for Nepal.

As you're all aware, Prime Minister Oli is scheduled to visit India shortly. His visit presents the two countries with a valuable opportunity to review our ties, address each other's concerns, strengthen promising areas of cooperation, and take our relations forward. We at ICWA will, of course, be closely watching the developments in our relationship in the wake of the visit of the Prime Minister.

I now invite Ambassador Dr Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal, President, IRGDD, to deliver her talk on “Modern Realities, Historic Friendship: Crafting Nepal-India Relations for a New Era”. Madam, the floor is yours.

Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal:  Thank you so much, Ambassador Nutan Kapoor Mahawar, Acting Director General and Additional Secretary at the Indian Council of World Affairs, and our Charge d'Affaires, Deputy Head of the Mission, Dr Surendra, distinguished guests, diplomats, scholars, dignitaries, and dear friends of Nepal and India, namaskar. After serving as Ambassador of Nepal to two strategically significant regions, the Gulf and Europe, I deeply realized the transformative power of diplomacy in reshaping not only bilateral relationship, but also the international perception of a nation. From the consular services to the cultural diplomacy, from the safeguarding migrants' rights to promoting investment and connectivity, I saw firsthand how developed diplomacy, when driven by purpose and people, can deliver peace, prosperity, and security. This realization gave birth to these three visionary platforms, the International Relations and Global Diplomacy Dialogue, a non-partitioned think tank for advancing attractive diplomacy, and Nepal's Diplomatic Vision, Soft Power, and Policy Innovation. The Ambassadors Club, a unique platform for the resident and non-resident ambassadors, diplomats accredited to Nepal. And the Diplomat Nepal, a diplomatic magazine, and online portal. At the heart of all these initiatives is a clear mission to elevate Nepal's global standing through soft diplomacy, inclusive dialogue, and a strategic collaboration. As a daughter of Nepal, I believe it is a high time we move beyond conventional diplomacy and embrace people-centered, peace-driven, and the future-focused international engagement. From Kathmandu to Delhi, and across every corridor of the power and friendship, Nepal deserves to be seen, heard, and valued. Together, all these platforms, they echo a single vision, advancing development through diplomacy.

This is a meaningful gathering today for a meaningful cause. And I really appreciate Nutan Kapoor Mahawar Madam, this morning. And this is why we are here today. This gathering at this iconic Sapru House under the banner of the Indian Council of World Affairs is not just symbolic, it is significant. It reflects our collective aspirations to reimagine, research, and renew Nepal-India relations in the light of modern realities and generational dreams. The Nepal-India friendship is not defined by documents or dictated by deals. It is a civilizational momentum, nurtured by open borders, shared spirituality, linguistic kinship, and familial ties. From Janakpur to Ayodhya, Pasupati to Varanasi, and Lumbini to Bodh Gaya, these are not just physical pathways. They are emotional arteries, flowing through centuries of coexistence. Our task is to protect and pass on this legacy, especially for the Gen-Z and Gen-Alpha, who must inherit not mistrust, but mutuality. Not inherit bias, but informed bonding. Modern realities demand mature relationship, and yet, the present call for realism, for maturity, for courage, India's emergence as a global power, economically, diplomatically, and culturally, is not just impressive, it is inspirational to all of us. Nepal views this very closely, as a shared opportunity. We don't wish to walk behind, but side by side, as sovereign partners in prosperity, peace, and planetary progress.

Our foreign policy stands tall on the pillars of non-alignment, peaceful coexistence, neutrality, friendships with all, enmity with none. We welcome all the countries in the world with open arms and equal dignity. This is not ambiguity. This is the confidence of a nation rooted in values and vision.

Let us now speak of the progress, tangible, visible, and mutual. Nepal is transforming quietly, steadily, from hydropower to highways, digital startups to clean energy, climate action to creative industries. We are writing a new narrative. Maybe some of you are thinking that other countries' economic footprints are visible in Nepal, but India's presence is foundational, embedded in our grid, our roads, our trade, and our hearts. India, Indian ports carry our cargo. Indian rail tracks guide our goods. Indian business enables our access to global supply chain. Let us move beyond fears of influence and instead force a trust-based, transparent, and a transformative partnership. Let India's neighborhood policy, neighborhood first policy, rightly, Madam Nutan mentioned, truly reflect more in both policy and the perception in coming days, too. And let us healing perceptions and harnessing people's power. In this, let me talk about, let's not overlook the intangibles, perception, emotions, and understanding. Despite our closeness, misunderstanding sometimes actually surfaced as politically from both sides, sometimes fueled by the past grievances, politics, or misinformation. But we must not let historic pain overshadow future potential. When perceptions are, it is the common citizen who suffers, the Nepali student in Delhi, the Indian tourist touring in Nepal, the small business owners in Biratnagar, and the families, the spiritual ventures. Let us move from the reaction to reflection, from the assumption to understanding. Let us rewrite the narrative together. I am confident that International Relation and Global Diplomacy Dialogue, in partnership with Indian Council of World Affairs, ICWA will contribute actively toward the building of compassionate, research-based, and the forward-looking diplomatic culture in South Asia and beyond. One breathing soul, one beating heart, is worth more than ideologies combined. Let patriotism never be taken away by prejudice. Our coexistence is not a compromise. It is the highest form of civilization. Let us take a marvelous step toward redefining the arbitrary mode of diplomacy in our vicinity.

Youth as an architect of a new era, and who will carry this vision forward? The youth, the dreamers, and the doers. Our youth are not waiting. The great things to happen. They are making it happen. Why not create a Nepal-India youth innovation platforms? A joint Gen-Z think tank for policy, tech, and sustainable entrepreneurship. Cross-border climate action. As rightly Madam Nutan mentioned, that how we are suffering due to a lot of natural calamities and then climate change. And we can also make cross-border climate action labs where ideas and the impact move freely. Let all Indian states, including Uttar Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Maharashtra, Gujarat, West Bengal, build direct province-level partnership with Nepali provinces on AI, clean energy, agriculture, tourism, education, and manufacturing. Let our youth not inherit confusions, but build new bridges of trust, talent, and technology. Let's now talk about business, because prosperity must power our partnership. India and Nepal share not just borders, but a bond of economic interdependence and aspiration. In today's globalized world, our cooperation holds the key to shared prosperity. India's manufacturing and digital capabilities can align with Nepal's green energy, skilled youth, and a unique geography as a gateway to both South Asia and beyond. Together, we can build infrastructure, expand trade, co-invest in hydropower, tourism, education, agriculture, and many more areas, including manufacturing. A future where ‘Made in Nepal’ and ‘Make in India’ rise together, uplifting lives on both sides. It is not just possible, it is essential now.

No great journey is complete without acknowledging those who lead it with vision. At this moment, allow me to express sincere appreciation for the visionary leadership of Prime Minister, Shri Narendra Modi, who has emphasized on connectivity, cultural diplomacy, and regional cooperation has brought a new dynamism to South Asia and beyond. Under his tenure, India has extended not just hands, but hearts, and Nepal has proudly worked as a partner in this journey, and will continue to support India to achieve Amrit Kaal Vision 2047. We thank the Indian bureaucracy for their tireless efforts in turning dialogue into development. And to the friendly people of India, thank you, your warmth, your friendship, your welcome, and your wisdom continue to inspire generations and helping deepening our relations. Let us now build a relationship that is not just transactional, but a transformational, built on trust, values, and shared destiny.

Let me now speak from the heart of every Nepali. Nepal is rising. Despite our challenges, our people remain hopeful, hard-working, and committed. Yes, political instability has been a pain. Yes, federalism is still in infancy, but our democracy is maturing. Our youth are learning. Our women are leading. Our entrepreneurship are innovating. Nepali people are ready for a future rooted in dignity, guided by vision, and uplifted by opportunity. What we now seek are trusted partners, friends who believe in our potential, respect our sovereignty, and walk with toward shared growth. Let the world, especially India, invest not only in our markets, but in the spirit and strength of the Nepali people. And finally, let us lift our eyes beyond borders.

The world crying for a peace across the globe. The world watches the devastating cost of the hatred and mistrust. Let South Asia, home to a quarter of humanity, rise with a different message. Let us help them invest in minds. Let us help them invest in mind, not in missiles, but trust, not trenches. Spread empathy, not enmity. Let us lead this moment as a co-creator of the peace, progress, and purpose. Let us not just reflect. Let us reset. Let me add a small, I mean, words. Nepal, Bharat ka risita gehra hai. Dono desh ka yuva iska chehra hai. Aapasi dosti aur pyaar se bhare hua yeh raste. Santi, vikas, aur khusi ke vaste. Dhanyawad.

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar: Thank you, Sarmila. That was a very positive statement from you, and I'm, you know, what I want to note is that you have so positively noted India's growth and India's emergence as a global power, and that it presents an opportunity to Nepal to also grow, and that Nepal itself, on its own, is also transforming. And that side-by-side, the two countries, the two economies, the two polities, as for millennia have coexisted, can continue to peacefully coexist and grow side-by-side. And what you have said is very important, that what we need is a kind of a reset in our relationship, and that we need to look at a transformative narrative of the relationship and transforming the relationship. And some of your ideas that you have said involving the youth are really noteworthy, especially that it is very important that the youth should not have any confusion, as you've said, in their mind about the direction of this relationship amidst all the misinformation and, you know, sometimes the political instability, or the, you know, just the reporting, the rhetoric in the media, so they have to see through that, and they have to realize the potential of this relationship, and have faith, firm faith in it. You have cited a number of areas, like green energy and India's, aligning India's manufacturing sector, Make in Nepal and Make in India, yes, they present immense opportunities and I thank you for supporting India's vision for the Amrit Kaal, for becoming a developed country by 2047 and I want to assure you that the sentiment here is also to take our partners, our neighbours along with us and that we do not wish to see our rise at the expense of any other partner or friend of ours but as a collaborative activity where you have stakes in our growth. So to build trust is extremely important and I am glad to hear from you that you have said that Nepal is rising. So with that, can I start the interaction? So who would like to, Nivedita, can you?

Nivedita Ray:  First of all, thank you so much for sharing your insight and perspectives on how India-Nepal can craft a relationship for mutual growth and development. I have a question related to the institute which you represent, IRGDD. What is exactly the mandate of your institute? We know that a lot many think tanks are coming up in Nepal. So in what way is your institute different from others in terms of your research mandate or your – because I think intellectual diplomacy remains one of the important aspects when we talk of India-Nepal relations. And in this context also, I would like to know how do you see ICWA? As you are aware that ICWA's mandate is foreign policy and IR research and dialogue. So how do you look at IRGDD's collaboration with ICWA and in what areas? Thank you.

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar:  Shall we take three questions?

Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal:  Yeah.

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar:  I think then we will. So just to tell you, Nivedita is the head of our research faculty. So she's our director of research and she looks after all our writings and research work, etc. And the neighborhood is a key area of focus. Okay, second question. Aman.

Aman Kumar:  Good morning, ma'am. Thank you for your insightful lecture. My question is about how the change in governments in Nepal tend to impact the foreign policy approach of Nepal. And despite of that, do you think that there exists certain kind of mutual sensitivities on each side, thank you very much ma'am.

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar:  So what he is asking is that with every change in the government are there any changes in the foreign policy approaches in Nepal and despite the changes, political changes in Nepal, do you see that there is a certain continuation in the understanding of each other's concerns on either side, so that's what he is trying to ask, third question, Avni.

Avni Sablok:  Thank you ma'am for your talk and it was very insightful and my question is on the recently Prime Minister Oli will be visiting India the next week, what do you think would be the achievable outcomes of the visit, thank you very much.

Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal:  First of all thank you so much and Nivedita right, your name is Nivedita, so I am glad that you are now doing research on the neighbourhood and of course we are the priority and the International Relations and Global Diplomacy Dialogue and in ICWA we can do partnership in the intellectual diplomacy side, we do research, we also advise our government for the policy making and we always think, we have been thinking actually Nepal should have a country specific foreign policy and also like a feminist foreign policy kind of little bit but though a lot of women are already in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, big numbers actually so are already there, but being a woman and then making policies are different things. So I think we are now trying to find out the areas for the more findings and of course the outcome will be the growth and the development in the foreign relation and helping Nepal to understand our foreign policy and review foreign policy also depending on the situation because everything is moving but at the moment the government of Nepal, I would like to connect his questions on the government as you mentioned that our foreign policy is the same, I mean even in the changes, the political changes will not change our foreign policy so our foreign policy will be the same so we are helping actually, we wanted to help them understand the foreign policy in the foreign matter, we should be there together always and we hosted a couple of investment summit in 2017-18 and then recently also and what we did, we have been always trying our best to include all the parties in Nepal to be together and in the foreign policy matter, especially even in this investment, foreign policy, or our stance to the outer world. So it has been really doing good into that. And also, even though there is a lot of political things happening, but in many, many issues, actually, critical issues, they all come together. If you see, I mean, the opposition and then the government, they sit together and they have a tea party every year. If you visit Nepal, every year we have tea party there. Such a nice political culture we have in Nepal. So there is no extremism in the politics also. So they are very much aware, though, as we mentioned, that we have a very new thing, and then we are maturing slowly. But understanding of the foreign policy and our behavior with the foreign world, by the politician, we have seen that they are in the same place. And yes, sometimes, the tilt, you know, the question comes up, the tilting and all. But it's not about the ideologies and all. I think they will, they love to, everybody love to knock the door, right? So whoever comes first, you know, they feel better, for the work, for the collaboration, for the cooperation. So I think this is not because of the policy, or, you know, they are tilting, but because of the requirement, demand of the collaboration, economic cooperation, collaboration, that bringing them together a little bit. And yeah, so regarding the Prime Minister Oli’s visit, yeah, amazing, he is visiting again. And we are very much hopeful this visit will add more value and enhance a much better thing, you know, in our relationship. And as whatever we mentioned recently, we talk about the investment, we talk about the collaboration, we talk about our existing cooperation, what's going on at the moment. And this visit will add more values and more opportunities. We have to now look for the more opportunities. And I'm sure that the Minister of Foreign Affairs is working on that. And we have here Surendraji with us today. And Dr Surendra, so we are very actively and very passionately, we are working on the visit, as from my understanding. And this visit will add more value in our friendship, in our relationship. Thank you.

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar:  So as you see what Sarmila has said, I actually really admire her. She is also not only building foreign policy narratives from her think tank, she is also building consensus amongst political parties on foreign policy. So, I only have words of admiration for that. Anyway. Yes, please.

Uma:  Dr Sarmila, thank you very much for taking us and navigating us through the deep-rooted India-Nepal relations. So you oversee the think tank, right? So, you were here speaking also about women is empowered, being a think tank, I'm coming from a very small, what you call, experts argue that Nepal is the hub for any human trafficking. My colleague, Nutan, also mentioned in her statement, and we have umpteen number of agreements with Nepal, human trafficking related, different, different platforms also. So do you think your think tank also bringing those issues to strengthen further? You know, how to influence the governance, the leadership there to address these issues.

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar:  She's our international law expert. She was in the Ministry of External Affairs before her recent retirement, and she headed the International Law Division for 10 years.

Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal:   Oh, lovely.

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar:  So she's our “the expert” in international law.

Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal:  Yeah, yeah, so it's a pleasure, actually, knowing you, Mrs Uma, and I really thank you for the raising this concern. Yes, between Nepal and India, and also from Nepal itself, actually, a lot of trafficking, especially women trafficking that you are talking about is happening. You know, there are so many causes behind this. There's many various root causes, actually, so we need to research. We need to find out the roots of the cause, and since I was working, you know, 2016-2017, as an Ambassador in Oman, and also a lot of women were there, so I mean, I had to frequently work with them, too. So what, I mean, I had a really close conversation with them sometime, you know, how you are here. You know, sometimes they use different routes to come. Nepalese women on Oman, sometimes they take routes. Some of the Nepalese, they come to India, and then being smuggled to India, and some of them in the Middle East sometime, you know, and then I meet some of them and myself, and I ask them, I try to find out, you know, what is the root cause of, you know, being smuggled and these things? So, you know, very sadly, the economic part is the main, I mean, cause, and various, actually, causes. One of the part is the economic situation of the person, and also the awareness, that we have to aware people that, you know, there is a lot of big room to work on the migration, especially on the trafficking and all. So, definitely, we have in our mission, vision, and objectives, we have in our objectives, very clear that we'll be working on the migration part also, but depending on the topic, and definitely, see, really encourage me now, because we already have in our objectives that we'll be working on the migration, and again, that even though we do research, we show them how it happened, but we need the doer there. We need the actor, we work, we enhance the economic situation of the people. So, I think everything is related to the economy, and the social, the pattern, you know, how our society is patterned, you know? Like, for example, let me tell you one example. When a woman is a single woman, or single mother, I'm talking about our Asian, you know, the tradition, especially Nepal, India, Bangladesh, these are the, so when the woman is single, of course, after 2015, when we promulgate our constitution, many women are empowered, as I mentioned in my speech also, and what happened, like, women, when they are single, when they don't have economic resources, they are forced, they are obliged to go to the overseas, or to work, you know, in the dangerous situation, in the critical situation. I mean, again, we have to work on the economic enhancement of the people. We have to have more job opportunity. We have to create job opportunity, safe job opportunity. We have to make them aware of the discrimination and of the difficulties they're going to face. So I think it is interrelated, interconnected, in many, many various other areas. So we are very much interested, actually, to work on this area also. And this is very critical. And sadly, I mean, still, people are suffering. People are being smuggled, which is a very sad part. And as a woman, as Umaji said, she worked for 10 years, more than 10 years, in the law section. And I worked almost nine years in diplomatic field. I was in Oman and in Spain also. Somehow it comes under our diplomacy. So this is a very serious and very critical and an important topic we should focus on in the future.

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar:  Thank you. So, Sarmila, we are also working on migration and illicit trafficking in our Council. And we can also together look at some of these issues. For instance, I know, I mean, I've been reading and my scholars have been telling me that you have Nepalese nationals coming to India, acquiring Indian citizenship, and then seeking appointment abroad. And illegally moving out and taking employment as Indian nationals, because they get greater acceptance as Indians, for whatever reasons, we don't know. So also, you have in the domestic services help sector a lot of cross-border movement from Nepal, especially of women. And many of them are in, I mean, they are really below poverty. So they don't really have an agency of their own. And so these are some of the issues we can together look at. But on the broader thing that you mentioned, about a feminist foreign policy, this is very interesting. Because we have also done some work here on that subject. I know that Western countries, some of them, Avni, would you know which countries have adopted? I think Canada, Sweden was the first one. Yeah. Yeah. So some European countries, and essentially Western countries, have declared a feminist foreign policy. And we from India, I think four years ago, we did a conversation here. And then we took out publications. And we were making a case for what we call the gender-sensitive foreign policy. So how to look at, you know, positively at women issues across all verticals of the foreign office. For instance, on human rights. For instance, on development partnership. Can I build a maternal and child hospital in Nepal? Infrastructure for women. Can I open a school for girls’ education in Afghanistan? So can I call Afghan girls for capacity building in the sense of give them scholarships to study in India or Nepali girls? So development partnership, human rights, not only that, but also in terms of, as you said, representation of women. How many women are there in the foreign office? So these are some of the issues even we've been looking at. And I'm so happy to hear that you are studying this and that South Asian countries are also looking at these issues and coming out with their own versions of what a gender-sensitive foreign policy should be like. Can I take another three questions?

Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal: Oh, yeah, sure.

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar:  Yeah, so second, Arshad, and then Keshav, and then Sanjeev.

Arshad:  Thank you, ma'am, for your remarks. My question is regarding the terror financing and everything. So I would like to ask, what can be possible strategies and measures to mitigate the circulation of fake currency and the concerns related to the terrorist financing in Nepal? Thank you.

Keshav Verma:  Thank you, ma'am, for your insightful discussion. Since you have mentioned a lot about younger generation in your speech, so I want to ask how do you propose a positive image of, particularly in the Nepalese media, about the India-Nepal relationship for the younger generation?

Sanjeev Kumar:  Thank you, ma'am. Ma'am, you rightly highlighted the importance of advancing development diplomacy in your presentation. India's high-impact community development projects, which ADG ma'am also highlighted, I think they are the best examples of development diplomacy and development partnership. So my question is, how do you see the role of these projects in advancing the bilateral relationship? And also, whether they support or advance Nepal's development priorities?

Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal:  Yeah. Arshad? Right? Arshad, yeah. I think both governments have to work very closely to mitigate the problem for the currency you mentioned rightly. And actually, Nepal police is really, really intelligent, really, I'm telling you. And of course, in India, I don't have to tell amazing system and amazing security system you do have. So I really appreciate. I think we have to really a little bit, both government have a little bit focus on that. And same time, this is -- from the government side, they have to do it. And as I rightly mentioned, that everything comes to the economy also sometime, I mean, why people are doing wrong activities. I mean, I'm just going deeper, maybe this really far from the topic that we are talking. But I think that economic power, basic economic thing, why someone is doing wrong thing, why they are acting wrong or doing wrong thing, I'm talking about the smallest scale. But in the bigger scale, like a fake currency, these are the thing, I think the both government has to focus and work very closely. So it will be much easier to help reduce this kind of problem.

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar:  Keshav was asking, how do you improve the projection of India-Nepal relationship in Nepalese media?

Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal:  Oh, yeah. Nepalese and India, both media. I mean, yeah, media has a big role, actually, to misinform, to defame and everything. So I think what we have to do, whatever we have a good thing in our relationship, amazing things what we have, we have to highlight that. And we have to reiterate that. And we have to have youth engagements, a program, and then some events. And also the people-to-people connection, what we already have, but we have to do in much more greater way. We have to bring our intellectuals and also the thinkers to bring together and organize some program. And there are various other ways that we show the people that, look, we have good things going on. And when they are ready to defame, we have to be more ready to defame that defame. So I think we have to come out now, because it's really a cost on both side. It cost a lot. And sadly, we have amazing history, amazing relation. We have good people. And honestly, when I was in Oman also, I'd just like to highlight, when I was in Oman, almost 700,000 Indian population almost were there. And actually, I was everywhere. So I was so close with them. And then I realized, look our roots, our history, amazing history, amazing trust and friendship. When I went back in this new year, to celebrate in Oman again, and I met some of the friends. They are my friends. So look how our relationship. And I was born and brought up in the eastern part of Nepal, in Jhapa. So the culture, the food, and the trust, amazing friendship. So we have to highlight on these things. We have to highlight on the positive things. Let's not hamper the political situations or whatever things not hamper this relationship. So we have to be very positive. We have to help understand new generation, our qualities, and what we had in the past.

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar:  So Sanjeev was asking whether you think our high-impact development projects are aligning with your developmental priorities, and you find them useful, and how are they contributing to the relationship, etc?

Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal:  Yeah, thank you so much, Sanjeevji, for the questions. Yes, of course. I mean, we have been receiving great cooperation from India, and in all the sector, actually, in the economic partnership, in all the sector we have been receiving. And the Embassy of India in Kathmandu also working rigorously to enhance the relationship. And we have received good cooperation, friendship, and partnership. Also, we are very glad with the recent energy cooperation that we had recently. And we have a lot of energy, excess electricity. I'm not talking about all the season, but in some season. And that has been utilized by India, which is great for us. I was talking about interdependence. This is the interdependence of a good example, that Nepal electricity lighting the house of the Indian. And when there is a need in India, and then you are sending us back from the same grid. This is an amazing relationship that we are having together. So we would like to increase this one in the coming days, in future, and be more focused, and help into the more areas where needed. And then, of course, in the infrastructure and sustainable development. So I really appreciate all the cooperation extended. Also, I don't have to say, even in the COVID time. I mean, as a neighbor, what you have done to us with Nepali and with our people in Nepal. And we really appreciate that. And we hope for the more continuous support and more strategical partnership now in the future.

Nutan Kapoor Mahawar:  Yeah. So thank you, Sarmila. Now we can sign the MOU, if you are prepared to do that.

Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal:  Yes. Yes, thank you so much.

Subodh Chandra Bharti:  Thank you, ma'am. It goes without saying that we all had a fascinating and enriching talk by Ambassador Dr Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal, ma'am, and an engaging interaction with all of us. Thank you, ma'am. On behalf of ICWA, I would like to express my gratitude to our esteemed speakers and all members of the Council for their participation. And to know more about ICWA, please do visit our website, our research programs, our outreach programs and publications, and also visit our social media handles, X, Facebook and LinkedIn. And wishing you a very wonderful day. Thank you.

*****

List of participants

1. Nutan Kapoor Mahawar, Acting Director General, ICWA
2. Amb. Dr. Sarmila Parajuli Dhakal, President, IRGDD